Polarization of America: Let’s start listening to the other side
A good friend sent me an email suggesting that we should have some new laws making congress to be more like the way our founding fathers meant it to be, more like citizen legislators who serve their term(s), then go home and back to their farms or places of work. It urged passage of something labeled “Congressional Reform Act of 2011” which is described in a viral emails, in blogs, and on Facebook. But, while I too am frustrated by congress, I’m afraid circulating this “Act” won’t accomplish much since from a factual point of view it is largely incorrect. Most of the points advocated are already in place.
Here are a couple of links which discuss that. (I have also included some of the explanations at the bottom of this reply).
www.factcheck.org/2011/03/congressional-reform-act
http://filterednews.wordpress.com/2011/01/13/fraud-congressional-reform-act-of-2011/
However there is something we can do and a message which I think needs to be spread to everyone:
America has become polarized to the point that we are mostly incapable of making real progress to solving our nation’s problems of which we have many. There is little real debate in our society, only people on both sides of the spectrum preaching to their own choirs; people more interested in making points or discrediting the opposition than in having a discussion.
We don’t even listen to the other side. With our access to the internet we can select the views and opinions we wish to read. We each have our own list of favorite sites and most of us only read views and opinions of those with whom we already agree, views and opinions full of “gotcha’s” and which are highly contemptuous of the other side. Then we say, “Right on!” We, and this includes our congress, have taken such inflexible, polarized, positions that middle ground is not considered.
But this is wrong. We are all Americans, liberal and conservative, libertarian and radical, and everyone’s views and opinions are equally valid. Let’s remember that probably 50% of our fellow citizens have views that are different than our own and this is their country too. Are we really so sure of ourselves, so arrogant, that we are willing to completely discount everyone else’s views, that we want to throw out their views entirely?
It’s time for some discussion, debate, and mutual respect. Even if we disagree we need to listen to each other. Some of what you say might resonate with me and vice versa. Some of our views might shift a little. Maybe we just agree to disagree but at least we could take positions, craft some solutions to the nation’s problems, which take into account the concerns of the other side. That is what is missing.
Let’s start by reading more of the opposite side’s views. Here are some suggestions:
For conservative views search for “conservative media views” or try these:
online.wsj.com/public/page/latest-opinion-analysis-columns.html
www.brucekelly.com/conservative-media.html
www.foxnews.com
www.heritage.org
www.drudgereport.com
For liberal views search google for “liberal media views” or go to:
www.nytimes.com/pages/opinion/index.html
www.bloomberg.com/view/columns
MSNBC
www.thedailyshow.com
NPR
And then we need to start asking our congressional leaders to do the same, and to seek compromises, even if it means giving up their polarized stances.
Fredrick Roswold, 2011
Responses to Congressional Reform Act of 2011
1. No Tenure / No Pension.
A Congressperson collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they leave office
No one in Congress achieves “tenure” – which is the permanent appointment to a position until retirement or death — so the author is confused.
The author makes it sound as if members of Congress draw their full salary until they die, even after leaving office. This is not true. They draw a “pension,” but it is determined by a number of factors, such as length of service, when they entered Congress, their age at “retirement” from Congress, the specifics of the pension options in which they enrolled upon retirement and their salary level at retirement. By law, their pension is capped at 80% of their salary, and they’d have to serve a very, very long time to get to that level
2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security..
All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security
system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system and
Congress participates with the American people. The funds may not be used
for any other purpose.
But members of Congress already participate, paying Social Security payroll taxes just like nearly every other worker. Once upon a time that wasn’t true, but members of Congress were brought under Social Security way back in 1984. Yet bogus claims like this continue to circulate more than a quarter-century later.
Moving their pensions into Social Security would simply create a higher SS tax rate for them than for us, presumably without a higher payout rate. Do you want whatever pension, IRA or 401K you have moved into Social Security? If I had one, I know I wouldn’t.
3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans
do.
Urges that members of Congress should "purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do." But that’s also nonsense. Relatively few Americans buy retirement plans entirely out of their own pockets. In fact, just under half of all Americans worked in 2009 for an employer that sponsors a retirement plan, according to the most recent information from the Employee Benefit Research Institute. And among those who worked full time for the entire year, 54 percent actually participated in an employer-sponsored plan. About 12 percent are self-employed, EBRI says, and so may be in a position to buy a retirement plan for themselves. But 27 percent had incomes of under $10,000 that year, too little to be putting much if anything away for retirement
4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay
will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.
But Congress doesn’t do that now. Under current law, pay increases are determined by a cost-of-living formula, and they take effect automatically, unless Congress votes to stop them. And in fact, that’s what has happened for the past two years. Congress denied itself any pay raise in 2010 and in 2011
5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the
same health care system as the American people do.
Calls for stripping members of Congress of their current health care benefits and forcing them to participate "in the same health care system as the American people." But which "system"? Most Americans are covered either by employer-sponsored health insurance or by various government-sponsored programs, such as Medicare for those age 65 and over or Medicaid for lower-income persons.
Members of Congress have good health insurance by any standard, but it’s not free and not reserved only for them – and it’s not government insurance. House and Senate members are allowed to purchase private health insurance offered through the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program, which covers more than 8 million other federal employees, retirees and their families.
The Federal Employees Health Benefits Program gives them a wide choice of private insurance plans. And according to the U.S. Census Bureau, nearly 51 million persons in the U.S. had no health insurance at all in 2009 — just under 17 percent of the population. (The author may have been laboring under the false impression that Congress somehow "exempted" itself from the new health care law, a bit of nonsense that was based on a number of misrepresentations that we addressed last year.)
6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they vote to impose on the
American people.
the idea that Congress has exempted itself from many of its own laws is also somewhat out of date. A law enacted in 1995 applied 13 civil rights, labor, and workplace safety and health laws to Congress, removing the basis for earlier criticisms. It’s true that members of Congress retain a degree of immunity from arrest or prosecution, but changing that require an amendment to the Constitution, which grants that immunity in Article I, Section 6. (The authors of the Constitution didn’t want any president to try what King Charles I of England had done in 1642 — sending troops to arrest his critics in Parliament.)
7. All contracts with past and present members of Congress are void
effective 1/1/12. The American people did not make this contract with
members of Congress. Members of Congressmen made all these contracts
for themselves. Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding
Fathers envisioned citizen legislators so ours should serve their term(s),
then go home and back to work.
voiding "all contracts" with past and present members of Congress, which may be a clumsy way of calling for cutting off all pension and health care benefits even for those who have already retired. (We’re not sure what "contracts" this person was thinking of.) Those are opinions
FULL ANSWER
This latest rant against Congress has been circulating since the start of the year, urging passage of a "reform act" to correct abuses of power by Congress. But as we often find with these chain messages, the author doesn’t know very much about the subject.
He or she (the author is anonymous, of course) repeats a number of false claims that we have debunked before. The author:
• Demands that members of Congress be forced to "participate in Social Security." But members of Congress already participate, paying Social Security payroll taxes just like nearly every other worker. Once upon a time that wasn’t true, but members of Congress were brought under Social Security way back in 1984. Yet bogus claims like this continue to circulate more than a quarter-century later, despite our best efforts.
• Urges that "Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose." But as we’ve explained before, the idea that Congress has exempted itself from many of its own laws is also somewhat out of date. A law enacted in 1995 applied 13 civil rights, labor, and workplace safety and health laws to Congress, removing the basis for earlier criticisms. It’s true that members of Congress retain a degree of immunity from arrest or prosecution, but changing that require an amendment to the Constitution, which grants that immunity in Article I, Section 6. (The authors of the Constitution didn’t want any president to try what King Charles I of England had done in 1642 — sending troops to arrest his critics in Parliament.) The message is confused, at first mentioning earlier constitutional amendments, but then describing the proposal as an "act," which refers to legislation.
• Recommends that "Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise." But Congress doesn’t do that now. Under current law, pay increases are determined by a cost-of-living formula, and they take effect automatically, unless Congress votes to stop them. And in fact, that’s what has happened for the past two years. Congress denied itself any pay raise in 2010 and in 2011, as we’ve reported.
• Calls for stripping members of Congress of their current health care benefits and forcing them to participate "in the same health care system as the American people." But which "system"? Most Americans are covered either by employer-sponsored health insurance or by various government-sponsored programs, such as Medicare for those age 65 and over or Medicaid for lower-income persons. Currently members of Congress have the same health insurance options as millions of other federal employees and retirees and their families. The Federal Employees Health Benefits Program gives them a wide choice of private insurance plans. And according to the U.S. Census Bureau, nearly 51 million persons in the U.S. had no health insurance at all in 2009 — just under 17 percent of the population. (The author may have been laboring under the false impression that Congress somehow "exempted" itself from the new health care law, a bit of nonsense that was based on a number of misrepresentations that we addressed last year.)
• Urges that members of Congress should "purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do." But that’s also nonsense. Relatively few Americans buy retirement plans entirely out of their own pockets. In fact, just under half of all Americans worked in 2009 for an employer that sponsors a retirement plan, according to the most recent information from the Employee Benefit Research Institute. And among those who worked full time for the entire year, 54 percent actually participated in an employer-sponsored plan. About 12 percent are self-employed, EBRI says, and so may be in a position to buy a retirement plan for themselves. But 27 percent had incomes of under $10,000 that year, too little to be putting much if anything away for retirement.
The author of this message advocates setting 12-year term limits on members of Congress, saying they "should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work." It also calls for voiding "all contracts" with past and present members of Congress, which may be a clumsy way of calling for cutting off all pension and health care benefits even for those who have already retired. (We’re not sure what "contracts" this person was thinking of.) Those are all opinions, with which readers may choose to agree or disagree. We take no position either way. What we do say is that the author argues for these opinions by making factual claims that betray a profound ignorance of the system he or she proposes to "reform."
– Brooks Jackson
Sources
Bank, Jusin "Members of Congress Pay Social Security Taxes" FactCheck.org 17 Dec 2007.
Jackson, Brooks "Lawmaker Loopholes?" FactCheck,org 29 Jan 2010.
"Congressional Accountability Act – Overview" Office of Compliance, U.S. Congress Accessed 18 Mar 2011.
U.S. Const., Art. I, §8
Trueman, Chris "The Causes of the English Civil War" History Learning Site. Undated, accessed 18 Mar 2011.
Jackson, Brooks "Another Zero Pay Increase for Congress" FactCheck.org 17 May 2010.
Jackson, Brooks "Health Care for Members of Congress" FactCheck.org 25 Aug 2009.
"Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009" U.S. Census Bureau, press release 16 Sep 2010.
Robertson, Lori "Congress Exempt from Health Bill?" FactCheck.org 20 Jan 2010.
VanDerhei, Jack, Prepared testimony for U.S. Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions hearing on “The Wobbly Stool: Retirement (In)security in America” Employee Benefit Research Institute 7 Oct 2010.
Posted by Brooks Jackson on Friday, March 18, 2011 at 2:12 pm
Filed under Ask FactCheck • Tagged with chain e-mail, chain e-mails, congressional reform act
Here are a couple of links which discuss that. (I have also included some of the explanations at the bottom of this reply).
www.factcheck.org/2011/03/congressional-reform-act
http://filterednews.wordpress.com/2011/01/13/fraud-congressional-reform-act-of-2011/
However there is something we can do and a message which I think needs to be spread to everyone:
America has become polarized to the point that we are mostly incapable of making real progress to solving our nation’s problems of which we have many. There is little real debate in our society, only people on both sides of the spectrum preaching to their own choirs; people more interested in making points or discrediting the opposition than in having a discussion.
We don’t even listen to the other side. With our access to the internet we can select the views and opinions we wish to read. We each have our own list of favorite sites and most of us only read views and opinions of those with whom we already agree, views and opinions full of “gotcha’s” and which are highly contemptuous of the other side. Then we say, “Right on!” We, and this includes our congress, have taken such inflexible, polarized, positions that middle ground is not considered.
But this is wrong. We are all Americans, liberal and conservative, libertarian and radical, and everyone’s views and opinions are equally valid. Let’s remember that probably 50% of our fellow citizens have views that are different than our own and this is their country too. Are we really so sure of ourselves, so arrogant, that we are willing to completely discount everyone else’s views, that we want to throw out their views entirely?
It’s time for some discussion, debate, and mutual respect. Even if we disagree we need to listen to each other. Some of what you say might resonate with me and vice versa. Some of our views might shift a little. Maybe we just agree to disagree but at least we could take positions, craft some solutions to the nation’s problems, which take into account the concerns of the other side. That is what is missing.
Let’s start by reading more of the opposite side’s views. Here are some suggestions:
For conservative views search for “conservative media views” or try these:
online.wsj.com/public/page/latest-opinion-analysis-columns.html
www.brucekelly.com/conservative-media.html
www.foxnews.com
www.heritage.org
www.drudgereport.com
For liberal views search google for “liberal media views” or go to:
www.nytimes.com/pages/opinion/index.html
www.bloomberg.com/view/columns
MSNBC
www.thedailyshow.com
NPR
And then we need to start asking our congressional leaders to do the same, and to seek compromises, even if it means giving up their polarized stances.
Fredrick Roswold, 2011
Responses to Congressional Reform Act of 2011
1. No Tenure / No Pension.
A Congressperson collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they leave office
No one in Congress achieves “tenure” – which is the permanent appointment to a position until retirement or death — so the author is confused.
The author makes it sound as if members of Congress draw their full salary until they die, even after leaving office. This is not true. They draw a “pension,” but it is determined by a number of factors, such as length of service, when they entered Congress, their age at “retirement” from Congress, the specifics of the pension options in which they enrolled upon retirement and their salary level at retirement. By law, their pension is capped at 80% of their salary, and they’d have to serve a very, very long time to get to that level
2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security..
All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security
system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system and
Congress participates with the American people. The funds may not be used
for any other purpose.
But members of Congress already participate, paying Social Security payroll taxes just like nearly every other worker. Once upon a time that wasn’t true, but members of Congress were brought under Social Security way back in 1984. Yet bogus claims like this continue to circulate more than a quarter-century later.
Moving their pensions into Social Security would simply create a higher SS tax rate for them than for us, presumably without a higher payout rate. Do you want whatever pension, IRA or 401K you have moved into Social Security? If I had one, I know I wouldn’t.
3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans
do.
Urges that members of Congress should "purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do." But that’s also nonsense. Relatively few Americans buy retirement plans entirely out of their own pockets. In fact, just under half of all Americans worked in 2009 for an employer that sponsors a retirement plan, according to the most recent information from the Employee Benefit Research Institute. And among those who worked full time for the entire year, 54 percent actually participated in an employer-sponsored plan. About 12 percent are self-employed, EBRI says, and so may be in a position to buy a retirement plan for themselves. But 27 percent had incomes of under $10,000 that year, too little to be putting much if anything away for retirement
4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay
will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.
But Congress doesn’t do that now. Under current law, pay increases are determined by a cost-of-living formula, and they take effect automatically, unless Congress votes to stop them. And in fact, that’s what has happened for the past two years. Congress denied itself any pay raise in 2010 and in 2011
5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the
same health care system as the American people do.
Calls for stripping members of Congress of their current health care benefits and forcing them to participate "in the same health care system as the American people." But which "system"? Most Americans are covered either by employer-sponsored health insurance or by various government-sponsored programs, such as Medicare for those age 65 and over or Medicaid for lower-income persons.
Members of Congress have good health insurance by any standard, but it’s not free and not reserved only for them – and it’s not government insurance. House and Senate members are allowed to purchase private health insurance offered through the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program, which covers more than 8 million other federal employees, retirees and their families.
The Federal Employees Health Benefits Program gives them a wide choice of private insurance plans. And according to the U.S. Census Bureau, nearly 51 million persons in the U.S. had no health insurance at all in 2009 — just under 17 percent of the population. (The author may have been laboring under the false impression that Congress somehow "exempted" itself from the new health care law, a bit of nonsense that was based on a number of misrepresentations that we addressed last year.)
6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they vote to impose on the
American people.
the idea that Congress has exempted itself from many of its own laws is also somewhat out of date. A law enacted in 1995 applied 13 civil rights, labor, and workplace safety and health laws to Congress, removing the basis for earlier criticisms. It’s true that members of Congress retain a degree of immunity from arrest or prosecution, but changing that require an amendment to the Constitution, which grants that immunity in Article I, Section 6. (The authors of the Constitution didn’t want any president to try what King Charles I of England had done in 1642 — sending troops to arrest his critics in Parliament.)
7. All contracts with past and present members of Congress are void
effective 1/1/12. The American people did not make this contract with
members of Congress. Members of Congressmen made all these contracts
for themselves. Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding
Fathers envisioned citizen legislators so ours should serve their term(s),
then go home and back to work.
voiding "all contracts" with past and present members of Congress, which may be a clumsy way of calling for cutting off all pension and health care benefits even for those who have already retired. (We’re not sure what "contracts" this person was thinking of.) Those are opinions
FULL ANSWER
This latest rant against Congress has been circulating since the start of the year, urging passage of a "reform act" to correct abuses of power by Congress. But as we often find with these chain messages, the author doesn’t know very much about the subject.
He or she (the author is anonymous, of course) repeats a number of false claims that we have debunked before. The author:
• Demands that members of Congress be forced to "participate in Social Security." But members of Congress already participate, paying Social Security payroll taxes just like nearly every other worker. Once upon a time that wasn’t true, but members of Congress were brought under Social Security way back in 1984. Yet bogus claims like this continue to circulate more than a quarter-century later, despite our best efforts.
• Urges that "Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose." But as we’ve explained before, the idea that Congress has exempted itself from many of its own laws is also somewhat out of date. A law enacted in 1995 applied 13 civil rights, labor, and workplace safety and health laws to Congress, removing the basis for earlier criticisms. It’s true that members of Congress retain a degree of immunity from arrest or prosecution, but changing that require an amendment to the Constitution, which grants that immunity in Article I, Section 6. (The authors of the Constitution didn’t want any president to try what King Charles I of England had done in 1642 — sending troops to arrest his critics in Parliament.) The message is confused, at first mentioning earlier constitutional amendments, but then describing the proposal as an "act," which refers to legislation.
• Recommends that "Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise." But Congress doesn’t do that now. Under current law, pay increases are determined by a cost-of-living formula, and they take effect automatically, unless Congress votes to stop them. And in fact, that’s what has happened for the past two years. Congress denied itself any pay raise in 2010 and in 2011, as we’ve reported.
• Calls for stripping members of Congress of their current health care benefits and forcing them to participate "in the same health care system as the American people." But which "system"? Most Americans are covered either by employer-sponsored health insurance or by various government-sponsored programs, such as Medicare for those age 65 and over or Medicaid for lower-income persons. Currently members of Congress have the same health insurance options as millions of other federal employees and retirees and their families. The Federal Employees Health Benefits Program gives them a wide choice of private insurance plans. And according to the U.S. Census Bureau, nearly 51 million persons in the U.S. had no health insurance at all in 2009 — just under 17 percent of the population. (The author may have been laboring under the false impression that Congress somehow "exempted" itself from the new health care law, a bit of nonsense that was based on a number of misrepresentations that we addressed last year.)
• Urges that members of Congress should "purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do." But that’s also nonsense. Relatively few Americans buy retirement plans entirely out of their own pockets. In fact, just under half of all Americans worked in 2009 for an employer that sponsors a retirement plan, according to the most recent information from the Employee Benefit Research Institute. And among those who worked full time for the entire year, 54 percent actually participated in an employer-sponsored plan. About 12 percent are self-employed, EBRI says, and so may be in a position to buy a retirement plan for themselves. But 27 percent had incomes of under $10,000 that year, too little to be putting much if anything away for retirement.
The author of this message advocates setting 12-year term limits on members of Congress, saying they "should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work." It also calls for voiding "all contracts" with past and present members of Congress, which may be a clumsy way of calling for cutting off all pension and health care benefits even for those who have already retired. (We’re not sure what "contracts" this person was thinking of.) Those are all opinions, with which readers may choose to agree or disagree. We take no position either way. What we do say is that the author argues for these opinions by making factual claims that betray a profound ignorance of the system he or she proposes to "reform."
– Brooks Jackson
Sources
Bank, Jusin "Members of Congress Pay Social Security Taxes" FactCheck.org 17 Dec 2007.
Jackson, Brooks "Lawmaker Loopholes?" FactCheck,org 29 Jan 2010.
"Congressional Accountability Act – Overview" Office of Compliance, U.S. Congress Accessed 18 Mar 2011.
U.S. Const., Art. I, §8
Trueman, Chris "The Causes of the English Civil War" History Learning Site. Undated, accessed 18 Mar 2011.
Jackson, Brooks "Another Zero Pay Increase for Congress" FactCheck.org 17 May 2010.
Jackson, Brooks "Health Care for Members of Congress" FactCheck.org 25 Aug 2009.
"Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009" U.S. Census Bureau, press release 16 Sep 2010.
Robertson, Lori "Congress Exempt from Health Bill?" FactCheck.org 20 Jan 2010.
VanDerhei, Jack, Prepared testimony for U.S. Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions hearing on “The Wobbly Stool: Retirement (In)security in America” Employee Benefit Research Institute 7 Oct 2010.
Posted by Brooks Jackson on Friday, March 18, 2011 at 2:12 pm
Filed under Ask FactCheck • Tagged with chain e-mail, chain e-mails, congressional reform act
posted by wingssail at 12:58 AM
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